Posted 11:42 AM by Dave Allen
Jim,

Of course Ian MacKaye's position sums up mine exactly. In fact Ian and I had
a lengthy discussion about this at Future of Music and in subsequent phone
calls over the last few months. Interestingly Fugazi followed in the steps
of my band Gang of Four in attempting to reach people by playing music that
we felt everyone was entitled to hear. Fugazi's $5 concert ticket price took
things further than Gang of Four but we would actually play for free as
often as possible at benefits attempting to raise political awareness among
our audience.
Ian and his band are highly principled in their stance and it is heartening
that he, like me, is still playing and forging ahead attempting to make a
difference. I think we both understand very clearly that success comes in
many shapes and forms and definitely does not require a recording contract
to validate it.

Dave Allen

On 4/18/02 7:17 AM, "Jim Willcox" wrote:

> RE Paul & Dave's conversation about making a living playing music:
>
> I'm in the process of editing a joint interview with Ian MacKaye (Fugazi)
> and Mike Watt (the Minutemen), and jeez, their takes on being a musician are
> so totally at odds with what I'm hearing from most younger artists. Here are
> a few snippets of the Ian MacKaye's conversation -- if anyone's interested
> in the whole article, I should have it edited and posted on our site next
> week:
>
> MacKaye: "My point as a musician is that I want people to hear my music. It’
> s not about getting paid. So, that’s really clear to me. And if I write a
> song that somebody else wants to hear, that’s great. But I’ve written plenty
> of songs that people don’t want to hear, and that’s all right, too. But when
> you ask me a question like what sort of advice can I give people, in my
> opinion it’s to just love what they do. And that way, if they end up
> thinking they’re a failure, at least they would have spent their time doing
> something they love. That’s it. That’s all I can think of, because each
> scenario, or each context, is so different...
>
> "What struck me when I was at that [Future of Music] conference was that
> there were all these questions from people saying, “How can we go on tour
> and make a living from our band?” And I’m thinking, 'Wait a minute, where’s
> this entitlement coming from?' People who can manage to squeeze music out of
> a stick with wires on it are already blessed, they’re already fortunate as
> it is. And if they’re able to play with other people and write songs, that’s
> an incredible blessing, too. Most people would be very happy to have that.
> If they can actually write a song and go on tour, they’re fortunate beyond
> belief. But then when I hear people say, 'How can we go on tour and make a
> living?' It’s like, 'God, you should be just happy you can go on tour. You
> should be happy you can play music at all.' The thing is, if you write
> music... all I can ever think about is to write a good song -- to make
> people WANT to see you. It’s not like a career path. It’s not like you
> decide, well, either I’m gonna be a waiter or I’m gonna be a musician. It
> doesn't work like that, where you just automatically decide 'I think I’m
> just gonna be a musician and make my living that way because it looks like
> those guys make a lot of money.' That’s just insane. Because the thing about
> being a waiter, for instance, is that you’re working in a restaurant in a
> structure that [is already established] -- people are gonna come eat, and
> you can bring their food to them, or whatever.
>
> "But when it comes to music, it’s not like you automatically get an audience
> just because you’re in a band. You have to be bringing something to the
> table that makes people want to come. THEN you can start talking about
> whether or not you can make enough money to eat yourself. It’s a really
> interesting phenomenon. I think that people now are thinking about it in
> terms of a career path. But I just never have thought about it, ever. From
> my point of view, in the beginning, when I first started playing music,
> during the first interview I was ever a part of, the woman who was
> interviewing us asked, “Are you in a band for the girls or for the money?”
> And at the time it had never occurred to me that anybody on earth would be
> in a band for either one of those reasons. From my point of view, it just
> seemed insane. I thought that people were in bands to play music, and that
> was it. It never occurred to me that there would only be these two choices.
> So it’s very hard for me to really empathize with people who can’t figure
> out how to make a living from their music. Instead of that, how ‘bout making
> some music, and then we’ll see if a living can follow?"
>
> "I always tell people, music is a form of communication that predates
> language, straight up. It’s been around forever. And it wasn’t until about
> the turn of the century that they figured out a way to 'bottle the water,'
> you know? Before that, music was a river. It was a river, and everyone could
> sip from that river. But then, someone came along with the idea that, 'Hey,
> we can bottle this, and we can sell this water.' And people were like,
> 'Well, that’s kind of cool, that’s convenient, because I can take it home
> with me, or I can put it in my pocket, take it on a walk and have something
> to drink,' which is fine. That’s a reasonable industry -- to go ahead and
> put some water in a bottle and sell it. That’s fine. But the problem is when
> they start trying to discourage people from going to the river, or trying to
> close [down] the river, or even worse, poison the river -- then it’s not all
> right. Then it stinks.
>
> "And, for me, music is not an industry. Music is not even entertainment. It’
> s not just a soundtrack. Music is part of life. It is a straight-up form of
> communication, and it resides in every person in the world. And that’s where
> I’m coming from in terms of music. That’s exactly the world that I want to
> be... At the same time, when it comes to music, there are certain elements
> of what we do with music that are just distasteful. If people see music as a
> living, they’re just screwed. They’re just gonna make something that’s not
> music, in my opinion. But there are plenty of other people out there who are
> making incredible music who are not even thinking about money, and that’s
> really where you’re gonna find all the new ideas. It’s always in the free
> space."
>
> Anyway, you get the idea. For Watt and MacKaye, they never really had a
> choice -- they were put on this earth to make music, and all the other stuff
> came after -- and actually, because of -- that. As a side note -- Fugazi
> never charged over $5 for a concert ticket because they wanted their music
> to be heard by anyone who wanted to listen.
>
> Best,
>
> Jim
>
> James K. Willcox
> Editorial Director/VP of New Media
> StarPolish
> http://www.starpolish.com